C-Poll

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March 18, 2005

A question to those who consider the killing of Terri Schiavo an act of mercy

To Michael Schiavo, George Felos, Judge Greer and their fellow travelers:

If all you're looking for is 'an end to her suffering'...

Why not just put a bullet in her head?

Why not let it end quickly? Why are you supporting one of the most prolonged and cruel killing methods known to mankind? Why not just shoot her?

15 comments:

dadahead said...

Is this a serious question?

Because they'll go to jail.

Ray said...

Exactly. I think you just made Tim's point.

brainhell said...

AFAIK, the Bible People would issue curdling fatwas, since euthanasia and assisted suicide are against the sharia law of the American mullahs. BTW, I have no opinion regarding this particular cae in Florida, since I don't watch TV.

Tim said...

Dadahead -

Schiavo, Felos & co. claim to be seeking the greatest good of Terri, yet they voice no discomfort over the fact that they'll be putting her to death using one of the most cruel, inhumane means imaginable.

It's almost as if Terri is merely a pawn for their own agendas.

Tim said...

Brainhell -

Thanks for your thoughtful, informed comment.

dadahead said...

Two points--

I imagine that M. Schiavo and others who support removing TS's feeding tube believe that she can't feel anything at all. So it's not really surprising that they're not concerned about possible discomfort/pain, nor should they be, if they are correct about their premise (that Terri's 'not there').

As far as ending it quickly instead of drawing it out, I agree that this would be vastly preferable. I said as much in a post a day or two ago. But it is the Religiosu Right who has agitated for euthanasia being illegal. In other words, THEY are ones who would have a problem with killing Terri quickly, not her husband. It is because of THEM that Terri's death has to be the drawn-out process that it will be.

Tim said...

Dadahead -

Re: your first point, I'll concede that possibility.

In your second point, you said:

But it is the Religiosu Right who has agitated for euthanasia being illegal. In other words, THEY are ones who would have a problem with killing Terri quickly, not her husband. It is because of THEM that Terri's death has to be the drawn-out process that it will be.


Here's how I read what you said:

Because the anti-euthanasia people would oppose killing Terri by any means, whether prompt or prolonged, Terri's death has to be the drawn-out process that it will be.

Did I read it correctly? It doesn't scan.

As I mentioned before, my whole point was to question the motives of Schiavo and Felos in particular. Both agree that she must die, by any means available, and the particular means that is legally available doesn't appear to trouble them.

This may be a niggling point, but it still strikes me as a curious thing.

tony said...

Tim,
Looks to me like dadahead actually has a point. If, and I think it is a big if, the issue is the legalization of euthanasia, then Terry has to die the most inhumane death possible so that the anti-euthansia types are painted in the starkest of bad light. That allows the pro-euthansia folks to come back with a statement like, "We really didn't enjoy making Terry suffer, but it wasn't our fault. We had no choice without a euthanasia law but to do it this way."
So in the end its just a nother step down the slippery slope. Proving yet again that all "animals are equal, some animals are more equal than others." The difference between the Hemlockers and PETA is which animal gets crowned king/queen.
I'd like to back trail the docs who have been chosen so far to do the evaluations of Terry's condition to see how many of them have connections to Hemlock and other pro euthanasia groups.
It might be interesting to see if Judge Greer has any connections to euthanasia groups as well.

Temlakos said...

As a matter of fact, Judge George Greer is a bought and paid-for man of the Hemlock Society.

Now about Michael Schiavo: Has anyone asked him about the bone scan done on Terri, showing multiple fractures in various stages of healing? And what about the report of an early medical examination, showing bruises about the throat in the shape and approximate position of fingermarks? I think he has wanted his wife out of the way ever since he met "Miss One-eleven" (Jodi Centonze, whose last name translates from the French as the number 111) through his associations at the Pinellas County jail infirmary where he worked.

I reject and repudiate the suggestion that "the anti-euthanasia people" are responsible for Terri having to die this way. I don't believe she wants to die. I think she can be taught to talk again, and if she talks, Michael is toast, and maybe Judge Greer is the jelly to be spread on the toast. And I think this case illustrates perfectly why euthanasia ought never be allowed.

The Dutch are already easing elderly relatives out of the way for no better reason than that the heirs want their inheritances now. Is that what Dadahead and Brainhell want?

dadahead said...

"I don't believe she wants to die. I think she can be taught to talk again, and if she talks, Michael is toast, and maybe Judge Greer is the jelly to be spread on the toast."

Actually, "jelly" would be an accurate description of what is left of the woman's brain, so I doubt she's going to be talking any time soon.

I assume you've seen the video of Terri. Does that really look like an enjoyable existence to you? For all you know, she wants to DIE. I know I would in similar circumstances. I sure as hell wouldn't want to have my gnarled body on TV 24 hours a day being used as a political football.

dadahead said...

Tim -

I think that's basically what I was saying.

How do you know that M. Schiavo isn't troubled by the way in which she has to die? I'm sure if given a choice he would prefer a quick death for her. But legally, that's not an option.

The options are: a 2-3 week death, or dragging it out for another twenty years. I could easily see how the former would be preferable.

Temlakos said...

Dadahead said:

Actually, "jelly" would be an accurate description of what is left of the woman's brain, so I doubt she's going to be talking any time soon.

I assume you've seen the video of Terri. Does that really look like an enjoyable existence to you? For all you know, she wants to DIE. I know I would in similar circumstances. I sure as [censored] wouldn't want to have my gnarled body on TV 24 hours a day being used as a political football.


Since some people in this thread have need of a little elementary medical education, and since I'm a doctor myself, if educate you I must, I must--and I will.

If Terri's brain were mush, she wouldn't even be able to breathe on her own; she'd be hooked up to a mechanical ventilator. I don't know whether you figured this out, but she isn't. And the only reason she needs that feeding tube is that Michael Schiavo has refused all rehabilitative therapies to encourage her to learn how to swallow again.

Yes, I've seen that video. I see nothing wrong with her that a little high-pressure O2 and some tender loving instruction can't fix.

What's your interest in seeing her die? I can understand Michael--he beat her regularly, which explains a bone scan showing multiple fractures in various stages of healing. He's found Miss One-eleven (Jodi Centonze, whose name translates from the French as the number one hundred eleven) and sired two children on her, and even lives with her while his wife is flat on her back where I think he put her there. The one time she was examined, the examiner found fingermark bruises on her throat. Add to it that Michael wants her cremated immediately upon her death. In one jurisdiction where I trained as a pathologist, a pending cremation request used to trigger an automatic autopsy. I know--I did several "medical examiner's autopsies" at Vanderbilt University Hospital for just that reason.

Frankly, I'm surprised that the Schindlers didn't hire a private investigator to ferret out some of these details--or maybe they did. But the bottom line is that she's no more brain-dead than you or I. And if she could communicate at all, then she might type out enough to get Michael Schiavo indicted for murder--and maybe get Judge Greer thrown off the bench on impeachment for aiding and abetting a gross miscarriage of justice.

And don't tell me about Judge Greer or his credentials. He's a bought-and-paid-for man of the Hemlock Society, who have contributed hundreds of thousands to his judicial re-election campaign fund. That's his racket. And don't tell me about previous law-enforcement investigations, either, because the man who was the sheriff of Pinellas County at the time of Terri's collapse was as thick with Michael Schiavo as one thief with another. He got Schiavo a secret job as head nurse at the infirmary of the Pinellas County Jail. And do you want to know something really hilarious? Old Mrs. 111 (Jodi's mother) was also an employee of the Pinellas County Sheriff's Office at the time. Maybe that's how Michael and Miss 111 met!

As I say, I can understand the rackets that Michael Schiavo and Judge George Greer are running. What I don't understand is your racket. Or have you just been reading too many Hemlock Society flyers, without really thinking that this is a dandy way for a man to get rid of his wife?

dadahead said...

I hope to God you are not actually a doctor. If you are, I weep for your patients.

"If Terri's brain were mush, she wouldn't even be able to breathe on her own; she'd be hooked up to a mechanical ventilator."

Surely you realize that different parts of the brain are responsible for involuntary mechanisms like breathing than those responsible for higher cognitive processing?



" I see nothing wrong with her that a little high-pressure O2 and some tender loving instruction can't fix."

Wha ... wha ... ??!!?

I'm more or less speechless. Yes, just some oxygen and TLC will fix her up just like new!

That, and a miracle from Jesus! But we can count on old J.C. to give us one of those, right?

Anonymous said...

The basic point is being missed here: Most end-of-life debates involve whether or not extraordinary measures are used to prolong life. In the past this meant using CPR or other procedures as well as using machines such as a ventilator to prolong life.

The Schiavo case is taking the "right-to-die" argument to the next level. The question at hand: Does providing food and water constitute artificial or extraordinary life-prolonging procedures?

yippee said...

So, 15 years isn't long and drawn out? Hmm...okay.

And...
"Another option available to people who are alert and able to make decisions is simply to stop eating and drinking. This also reportedly causes a peaceful and gentle death, though it takes a number of days and a strong determination."
http://www.compassionindying.org/gentle_death.php

Cruel? Okay.

The woman has spontaneous reflexes.

And you're not one bit concerned about the 4 hour meeting in Congress on a Sunday night at 9-12:30?

Think about something else: If God wants her to stay alive, wouldn't he keep her alive even without a feeding tube? Yes, religious right.